i think because this is a guitar website, we tend to focus on the technical aspects of playing, ability is important, i don't doubt that...

but being a good player and being a good song writer are two entirely different things.

a long time ago, i changed my focus, i was in a metal band, doing guitar and vocal duties, based on working with the guitarist i was working with at the time, i resigned myself to the fact i wasn't going to be the guitar player in the band with the most impressive chops, so i settled for being the band's song-writer. it was a role i found, that suited me much better.

i'll post my thoughts eventually, but i want to hear some other people first, what is the secret to writing a good song?








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One can make a useful thing as long as one does not admire it. The only reason to make something which is not useful is that one admires it intensely. -Oscar Wilde

koffeefrk wrote:

i think because this is a guitar website, we tend to focus on the technical aspects of playing, ability is important, i don't doubt that...

but being a good player and being a good song writer are two entirely different things.

a long time ago, i changed my focus, i was in a metal band, doing guitar and vocal duties, based on working with the guitarist i was working with at the time, i resigned myself to the fact i wasn't going to be the guitar player in the band with the most impressive chops, so i settled for being the band's song-writer. it was a role i found, that suited me much better.

i'll post my thoughts eventually, but i want to hear some other people first, what is the secret to writing a good song?

For me personally, a catchy rhythm, bass and drums are key, and as learned from my last band: NO Final Fantasy VI references in the lyrics. That particular song was one of our best musically, but I couldn't stand listening to it after a few nights out.

Also I find that, actually having something to say, instead of just making up new metaphors for a broken heart, usually make for a more interesting song. Some of my favorite songs fall under the love category, but at the same time, why sing in a band if you don't have anything to really say?

song-writing isn't just lyrics...

it's putting together the efforts of several musicians in the best way possible, there's a lot to it.








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One can make a useful thing as long as one does not admire it. The only reason to make something which is not useful is that one admires it intensely. -Oscar Wilde

For sure. But as starting points, those are what work for me.

Never tried it before, but can I suggest that youve all gotta be in a similar state of mind...
And keep in mind writing lyrics and writing poems are two entirely different things, its more important for lyrics to fit with the song rather than have some special meaning or metaphores and such. With that in mind you should probably be writing the music first, then the lyrics. Flow is key.

Maybe for practise you could find some songs that you like and rewrite the lyrics in your own style.








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Im an optimist, so naturally I like to think my head is half FULL.

flow is key... this is so true


i have to say as a writer and arranger myself, you need to look at how each instrument fits within the aspect of music. and this includes the lyrics. they all have to feed off of each other to create what you are looking for. it's not right to have one thing, whether it be guitar, drums, or the singing, dominate your music. it will make it look like all you are wanting to do is show off in that one area. no one wants to hear that. make it blend and flow between everything

well, I don't know if I'm a good songwriter, but I like what I hear. and I haven't gotten tired of my songs yet... yet.
I think for me the hardest thing is to pull myself out of it, you know, take a step back. I get so focused in on certain parts that it's hard to pull back and disassociate myself with the piece.
Here's a quick run of the process for me:
1. riff
2. can that riff be better? simplified? more dynamic?
3. expand my feelings on that riff
4. repeat #2
5. I don't want to follow the verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-solo-chorus method, so can I change it up?
6. beat myself up cuz I can never seem to get my last riff to flow back into the main riff and decide that a bridge at the end of a song isn't called a bridge, but do it anyway.

Like said above it's all feeling and flow.
Don't forget to question yourself and push yourself harder to do better.








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http://www.myspace.com/ignite454

Nutter wrote:

Never tried it before, but can I suggest that youve all gotta be in a similar state of mind...
And keep in mind writing lyrics and writing poems are two entirely different things, its more important for lyrics to fit with the song rather than have some special meaning or metaphores and such. With that in mind you should probably be writing the music first, then the lyrics. Flow is key.

Maybe for practise you could find some songs that you like and rewrite the lyrics in your own style.

i'm talking about writing in all forms, even just talking about writing by yourself in your room.

starting to write songs on your own, whether you're in a band or not, is as integral a part of learning to play as being able to hold a pic properly, in my opinion.

i wasn't in bands for years, but i have probably 50 songs i wrote in that period that i recorded to an analog four-track.

writing has always been a part of my being a musician. i started writing my own songs almost as soon as i started learning other people's songs








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One can make a useful thing as long as one does not admire it. The only reason to make something which is not useful is that one admires it intensely. -Oscar Wilde

i'm going to go out on a limb a little bit, and try to explain, a little, my notions about song-writing.

probably, by the time i am done, you will all think i'm just a little nuts (you would be right)


if you look at the work of all the great classical composers, Beethoven, Mozart, and so on, on the manuscripts they always dedicated their work "to the greater glory of God"
this is because music was primarily all religious expression prior to the modern era. the vast majority of music was religious music, praising god and praising nature in its various configurations, throughout the world and throughout all cultures. whether you are talking about the Brandenburg Concertos or traditional African drumming, or any other type of music prior to the rise of popular music in the modern era. music was a core piece of religious ritual.

that said, i do not believe in god, so i am certainly not making music for god...

but all music developed and began as an expression of human deference to what is greater than itself. call it god, or nature, or the supernatural, whatever.

music is an expression of the mysterious, the unknowable, all that is great and terrible in the human experience.

so how does this apply to me when i write a song?

simply, music ought to be an expression of whatever it is we consider to be divine.

i can write a song about my life, my anger at what i see, my failed relationships, or my joy at what i posses, but ultimately, writing music is bigger than me. it's not about me.

creation is a mystical practice. writing music is a method of showing what is divine in the human mind.








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One can make a useful thing as long as one does not admire it. The only reason to make something which is not useful is that one admires it intensely. -Oscar Wilde

even though i am not a fan of Led Zepplin, i am drawn to the figure of Jimmy Page because he understood that when he was practicing ritual magick, and when he was making music, he was in effect doing the same thing.

Hendrix too, i think, had an intuitive understanding of his.

Tool, when the bands goes into the studio, practices ritual magick as they are recording their albums.

what young musicians need to understand, is that god has largely faded from the picture, and that they are the prophets, seers and magicians of their cultures.

there is a quote i'm going to eventually post here by the pre-Romantic poet William Blake, from his poem "All Religions Are One" about what Blake referred to as the "Poetic Genius"

i'll get to that eventually.








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One can make a useful thing as long as one does not admire it. The only reason to make something which is not useful is that one admires it intensely. -Oscar Wilde

If you don't have a good song you have nothing...playing ability should be a vehicle for you to deliver your songs, there is a "BIG" gap between and artist and a technician...anybody can play, but the natural talent that is there from birth, no School or teacher in the world can put it there..now if you have all that and can write good songs, hummm you are bless, like Steve Wonder..cheer's and happy holidays.








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DGTRMAN

DGTRMAN wrote:

If you don't have a good song you have nothing...playing ability should be a vehicle for you to deliver your songs, there is a "BIG" gap between and artist and a technician...anybody can play, but the natural talent that is there from birth, no School or teacher in the world can put it there..now if you have all that and can write good songs, hummm you are bless, like Steve Wonder..cheer's and happy holidays.

agreed.

there are many people out there that are blazingly fast, know theory in and out, and could school me on any given day as far as playing goes, but can't write a song. it's two completely different skill sets.

enjoy the holiday.








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One can make a useful thing as long as one does not admire it. The only reason to make something which is not useful is that one admires it intensely. -Oscar Wilde

in your opinion, do you think understanding that 'magic' and being a 'prophet of the culture' is necessary to write a song?

guitarfreakyman wrote:

in your opinion, do you think understanding that 'magic' and being a 'prophet of the culture' is necessary to write a song?

well, no, it's probably not necessary to write a song, or we wouldn't have Brittany Spears.

once you start taking into consideration the quality of the music that is being made, then the spiritual aspect is indispensible.








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One can make a useful thing as long as one does not admire it. The only reason to make something which is not useful is that one admires it intensely. -Oscar Wilde

so all quality music is spiritual?

(i'm only asking...)